Ruminations in Korea

Comment by CV

12 February 2006 @ 6:07 pm

I am a white woman teaching in Korea. From what I have been told it’s not predjudice against inter-racial dating that holds us white women back with Korean men, I believe this is so, since white women are dating black men in droves. Although I have never dated a black man, I would not be against it, if he were mature and sweet. So theoretically, I am not against dating a Korean man. My experience with Korean men is they are very, very sweet — but, unfortunately in a sweet adolescent way. In other words, I feel the “sweetness” is the kind that will fade away –quickly– after marriage. Fade just as a morning fog evaporates on a bright sunny day. This may sound strange but behind a Korean man’s sweetness lurks a deep cruelty of a selfish child’s nature. I can sense it, a kind of self-gratifying manipulative spirit that is hard to put my finger on. I have talked with a few Korean women who know what I am talking about, yet other Korean women can’t even register what I am saying. Anyways, smart “western” women smell this out in Korean men … they stay away for this reason. Other women who like a “sad love affair” for some drama and to later complain about to the girlfriends, will play with Korean men for some sport. They will rarely make a life partner with such men.

Sorry to any Korean men who may be reading. I am just expressing my opinion which is like belly buttons…everybody has one.

Comment by 왕음치

12 February 2006 @ 6:26 pm

Freakin’ Hilarious

Comment by jodi

13 February 2006 @ 10:16 am

CV, interesting how you put the white woman in the power seat of a Korean man-Caucasian woman relationship. It has been my understanding that Korean men would very much avoid dating Caucasian women for various reasons and if anything, just find them a fun experiment to dabble in, show off to their friends and play with between the sheets.

I would say very few Korean men would ever venture off into a serious relationship with Caucasian women for various reasons. In this sense, I would place them in the power seat of a Korean man-Caucasian woman relationship.

However, if western women are taking these guys on as “a sport” then I guess it’s a win-win situation for that is probably exactly what some Korean guys are doing when dating a Caucasian woman in the first place.

Not all mind you, but many I would guess…

Comment by elizabeth

13 February 2006 @ 9:56 pm

Why make it about “power seats”? It’s not, and that take on things shows an immature view of relationship decisions.

There’s a natural lack of attraction between men raised in asian cultures and western-raised women, and there are plenty of reasons for it. It boils down to differing cultural and physical expectations for asian men and western women. I’m actually working on an article called “Why I Don’t have a Khmer Boyfriend” (the top reason is that I’m already taken! but there are plenty of others, too).

Comment by Jeff in Korea

14 February 2006 @ 3:15 am

Elizabeth! Wow, you still read me? That’s nice to know.

I can’t imagine anyone trying to tame the force of nature that is Elizabeth Briel.

Comment by jodi

14 February 2006 @ 9:25 am

elizabeth said: Why make it about “power seats”? It’s not, and that take on things shows an immature view of relationship decisions.

I don’t know what it’s like in other parts of Asia but it seems to me that in Korea, when you’re reversing the roles and putting a Western/Caucasian woman in a relationship with a Korean man, many times these relationships are based on “an immature view of relationship decisions.”

(Not all–I know two that resulted in marriage and one that became very serious.)

Relationship “power seats” form when two parties are in it for different reasons: one for love, the other for a fling.

I had one Korean male friend agonizing over this issue in regards to his own relationship with a Caucasian South African woman. He was falling in love with her, but she was just in it for sex.

Why didn’t he leave her upon realizing this? Because he liked the sex! He was willing to endure emotional torture because of his weakness for physical pleasure. I see a relationship “power seat” right there.

Why did the woman not want to commit to this man? Well it could be as you said…she wanted different things in a lover but was not prejudice when it came to bed buddies.

Would this be considered an immature view on relationship decisions? To me it would be.

Likewise, I’ve heard of Korean men taking the same route my friend’s Caucasian girlfriend took. However the women were usually strong enough to walk away before it turned into a “power seat” relationship but the potential for one forming was always there.

Comment by jodi

14 February 2006 @ 9:26 am

and in regards to the video shown, there’s no use over-analyzing it. basically this video shows that the grass is always greener on the other side. it fails to really explore the question posed in the beginning.

Comment by CV

15 February 2006 @ 9:24 pm

Jodi,

I am flattered to see your response to my comments. At first I had a similar reaction as Elizabeth to your framing this issue as a “Power” issue. It seemed so Marxist in outlook, and at first blush I also thought it immature. I am not sure if you are a woman or man … if a woman, I thought there is a feminist streak in your thinking about this; if a man, then … well maybe your ego is involved.

But, the more I thought about it, I realized — YOU ARE RIGHT! The Korean men do see themselves as the power holders in a Korean male/white woman relationship. The reason why is because the essence of MASCULINITY is POWER.

Isn’t it obvious? It’s what women respond to. Similarly, men are drawn to vulnerability in women. They want to protect us. Korean men know that to equalize power is to eliminate sexual distinction … and Korean men appreciate this distinction and know it doesn’t mean that woman are not powerful and effective as women.

Korean men — steer clear of any sexual relationship where he is not in charge. I like this in Korean men. Just as femininity should be respected, so should masculinity. You emasculate a man when you take away his power. A husband will consult his wife but eventually someone has to make a decision. A man who is ruled by his wife is less a man. He feels like a little boy with his mother. On the other hand, when his wife accepts his leadership, he feels like a man. Women help to make men.

Similarly, a wife who follows her husband’s leadership feels more like a woman. If she can’t follow him, she should be married to someone else… and here is the crux of the Korean male/white girl relationship’s problem…

Jodi,I agree with you about power in relatiohships. There is no such thing as “equality” in terms of power. (Feminist “equality” is really a ploy for female domination. For example, you don’t hear feminists calling for equality at universities where women often outnumber men by 2-1 .)

The essence of femininity is for a woman to depend on the man she loves. The intimate male-female dynamic is for woman to entrust worldly power to her husband, and for him to use it to make her happy.

Man wants power. Women want love (not power.) They ARE different.

The problem, therefore, with white girls dating Korean men … is white women instinctually cannot trust Korean men… and cannot safely hand-over the power to such a male. May I be frank to say Korea is a nation of arrested-developed males deeply attached to their mothers… the capacity to bond with a female to the point of willing self-sacrifice is distinctly stunted in your average Korean male. Yet, we women instinctually seek that in a man … you know the capacity to bond exclusively with a woman and give his life to her. We are fast losing this kind of white men, but they still dominate in America. They feel safer as husbands. Such mother-attached men as we see in Korea,however, are behind the sweet romance … curiously deep haters of women …with a childish cruelty hiding behind his sweet adoration …this kind of man guarantees a sad marriage in the long-run for your typical Western woman. Unfortunately the cultural factors that induce this in Korean nationals are culturally carried-over and become prevalent even in Korean-American males. They are cute, but definitely not marriage-material for Western women.

Don’t hate me for saying so. I am just being frank. I wonder what Elizabeth has to say about all this.

Comment by the_real_mr.kim

16 February 2006 @ 1:53 pm

Why don’t asian men date caucasian women? More specifically korean men? The korean men bear a responsibility to carry on the family name and heritage. To date/marry outside the race is frowned upon alot more than the korean women. Also, through the media, most koreans get the perception that caucasian women have looser morals, ie sex. To be fair, stereotypes are abundant on both sides. I’ve dated many caucasian women before (I was schooled in the U.S.)but do not anymore. The burden of racism on both sides just wasn’t worth it.

Comment by Janet

16 February 2006 @ 9:32 pm

Mr. Kim,

The general willingness for alot of caucasion women to have sex outside of marriage is not an unfounded perception, but a fact. Isn’t this a reality many Korean men are hoping for in their overtures to caucasion women?

Since caucasion women are generally taboo for Korean men to marry for cultural reasons, doesn’t this intensify their desire to land one in bed? Isn’t this forbidden fruit motive a turn-off to caucasion women looking for a real relationship that might lead to marriage?

Isn’t this trophy mentality regarding caucasion women among Korean men, the very uneasyness CV feels about Korean men? If she longs to give the “power” to a man, wouldn’t she be wise in not giving it to a Korean man?

You say stero-types go both ways, I wonder what you think is an unfounded stero-type caucasion women have concerning Korean males. I think most stereo=types we have are basically true. Such as the trophy mentality of Korean men regarding caucasion women.

Comment by Rick

16 February 2006 @ 9:37 pm

Women marry up. Men marry down. For a white woman to marry a Korean man, it is marrying down. It’s that simple.

Why women consider marrying a Korean man, as marrying down? I have my opinion, but it’s not politically correct.

Comment by therealmrkim

17 February 2006 @ 5:55 am

Jant,
Thanks for your comments. I found it very interesting, with all due respect, it was a little contradictory and slightly arrogant. The overtures as you put it of korean men towards cauasian women - willingnes towards premarital sex is true for most MEN (all races).
The term “trophy” seem somewhat arrogant and condescending. If there is a infactuation for caucasian women, it is due to curiosity and nothing more. The taboo factor evens out. Isn’t it also a taboo for the caucasian women? Up until the mid 1960’s in the U.S., many staes had laws against interracial marriages.
I may be mistaken, but the stereotypes caucasian women might have of korean men are that we are controlling, dominating, and chauvinist. This stereotype could also fit most men in general. Janet, in all, it was interesting reading.

Comment by therealmrkim

17 February 2006 @ 6:13 am

It is true, women do marry up. To marry a korean man would be marrying up. Unlike some others, korean men have less children out of wedlock, low divorce rates (can count on them to be there), hard working, generally educated, loyal family oriented men. I guess this would be marrying down.
If you want to be politically correct, maybe you should take off the pillow case over your head, turn off The Jerry Springer Show, walk out of the trailer and get some fresh air.

Comment by Ziggy Freud

17 February 2006 @ 10:43 am

The term “trophy” seem somewhat arrogant and condescending. If there is a infactuation for caucasian women, it is due to curiosity and nothing more.

Whatever, dude.

Close your eyes and ignore it if you want, but Korean men even have their own slang terms for this.

Don’t tell us you’ve never heard one of your drunk Korean office mates tell you he’d been longing to go out and “ride the white horse“.

Man, I can’t even count the number of co-workers who have confessed that one to me over the years.

Call it a mere “curiosity” if you like, but in my experience it’s more of a national obsession.

Why do you think there are so many long, lanky Russian prostitutes here?

You don’t seriously entertain the notion that those girls came all the way here because they wanted to shag Korean men, do you?

It’s because they can make good money helping Korean men live out their secret fantasies.

Deep down, every Korean man wants to be Rhee Sung Man.

Comment by Linda B

17 February 2006 @ 3:46 pm

Mr. Kim,

The stereo-type that Korean men are hard-working family oriented men … is a canard that has been debunked by countless foreign observers who learn first-hand about Korean males.

What takes one Japanese worker to do within a work organization, it takes 7 inefficient Korean males … Korean males who mostly sit at their work desks chatting on the internet. These males leave work and stay out all-night with their male co-workers getting drunk and getting-it-on with hostess girls and prostitutes. The lonely Korean wife languors at home committing incestuous mother-smother on their sons who are forced into the slavery of being husband substitutes … thus, creating the famous Korean male’s mother fixation… with its corresponding deep resentment against women in general.

If marrying such a male is marrying-up, then OJ Simpson is innocent.

Comment by therealmrkim

18 February 2006 @ 6:46 am

You’re absolutely right. Whatever dude.

Speaking for myself, I’ve dated more caucasian women than korean women. This is because I went to a preodominantly all white upper middle class middle school for 1 1/2 years, highschool, college and received an athletic NCAA letter. My “first” was a caucasian women. Even almost considered marrying one.

Your office experience is not sufficient for your assumptions. You probably haven’t assimilated long enough to judge us koreans.

Sure, there may be a longing by some korean men. People long to visit Africa, but how many long to live there? People like riding horeses, but how many would give up their cars and horseback to the office? Do not confuse infactuation, curiostiy, fetish, and novelty. “It is what it is.”

Russian prostitutes come to Korea for the money. There are prostitutes that will even have have sex with a monkey or a horse for that matter. What about the korean prostitutes? Only white G.I.s? I think not. Using prostitutes as an example is weak.

Your assumptions are racist, disrespectful, and demeaning at best. Are you even fluent in korean? You should at least be bi-lingual to have better insight on koreans, not bi-sexual. The racist door swings both ways! You’re probably a white nerd/dork who couldn’t even make it or get laid in your own country. Only sex you get in Korea is by paying for it or by putting on a phony facade of something you’re not. Preying on the fascination and novelty of korean women towards foreigners. That’s like a child molester. Due to the general ignorance of white culture by most koreans, including your co-workers, they probably do not realize the racist, arrogant, dork they’re working with. You aren’t even a alpha male in your own culture, that’s why you stay in Korea.

Yes, the white man has come to dominate modern society. They did it through theft, and deceit. Just as your posting reflects.

At least I had the sense to come back to my country.

A caucasian woman would be doing well to marry Korean. Statistics do not lie.

Comment by therealmrkim

18 February 2006 @ 6:47 am

Ziggy Freud,

It was for you. No disrepect to anyone else.

Comment by Sean

18 February 2006 @ 1:23 pm

Wow, I could have guessed that in the end it would come to cheapshots. (mr. kim, shame on you for the trailer trash comment, how would you feel if someone told you take the “pillow case off of your head and walk out of the soju bar to get some fresh air?”) There is nothing like taking credibility out of a statement by garnishing it with school yard name calling.

Generalizing about men along racial lines is just plain ignorant. Does Korea have lower divorce rates? Yes, but for how much longer as they are on the rise. Yes, the out of wedlock children are less common in Korea than the Western world, but are again on the rise along with teen pregnancy because the conservative education can’t keep pace with mass media. Also, I have absolutely no data on this, but I would venture a guess that a LOT of out of wedlock children in Korea end up in the orphanges. And lastly, because nobody would admit, but I would say that extra-marital affairs are as prevalent in Korea if not more so. How can there be entire neighborhoods of “illegal” brothels? They have no customers? As far as “generally educated” I would be careful with that. It is another horrible generalization, because someone may have a university education, this alone does not defeat ignorance. Knowing nothing of the world outside your borders is like having no education at all.

Anyway, people are people. There a ton of ingorant people in the West, Asia and indeed the whole world. There are good husbands and bad husbands. Is a Korean husband different from a Western one? Yes, but better or worse? Isn’t that for the wife to decide. People should date and marry who they want without the endless discussion and stereotyping.

Comment by elizabeth

18 February 2006 @ 7:47 pm

FYI: Over here in Cambodia, I’ve been unable to see the video as my internet cafe is much too slow, but the comments have made an interesting read. They’re much tamer than what one reads on Cambodian-related sites.

Jeff - Of course I still read you, even when far far away from Busan. It’s always a pleasure, and I like seeing my painting up there now and again (btw, if you have a chance could you email it to me sometime? seems I’ve lost my high-res photos of it)

And yes, I’ve been tamed - at least in terms of extracurricular activities and comments - I got married last year! (you met him once - he lives in Hong Kong, though, as there’s only pennies to be made here) Being with him has been a few years of learning how to love in all sorts of ways….ah well, no need to get into it here. Lifechanging, to say the least, in the best way.

Jodi, thanks for clarifying what you meant by “power seats”. If I didn’t have a hundred things to think about (like what to play on my radio show tomorrow, and how to gracefully keep my photo students, the street kids, from picking at my varnished toenails in between taking photos) I’d suggest another name for it.

Anyway, what you’re talking about makes sense - yep, there are a million reasons people get involved w/one another, and esp. when they come from different cultural backgrounds, there’s more likely to be a gap between what they’re after. Heck, when I met my man, he was after a long term relationship and I wanted nothing of the sort! (changed my mind after a few weeks though) Our cultural gaps were just those one gets on different sides of the Atlantic; though they’re nothing like western/asian ones, they’ve made things interesting at times, to say the least.

Comment by therealmrkim

19 February 2006 @ 10:37 am

Linda B,

The sterotype of korean men as hard working , family orientated men debunked by countless foreign observers.

Korea is a very homogenous monoculture. “First hand” observations results in serious misconceptions due to a lack of complete understanding of the culture. What a foreigner “sees” is superficial. Only a caucasian that has fully assimilated into the culture can make an observation that would be bias-free. Much as possible.

It takes 7 Korean men to do the work of a Japanese worker? Again, the key number in this case is 7. The last time I checked, Korea was 7th in the world as far as GNP (a country half the size of California).

As for Korean men drinking and attending hostess bars, again, lack of understanding of the culture. Most business deals are stamped and sealed during these events. Also, more or less a male social event. Right or wrong your “country club.”

By the way Lida B, the “incestuous” mother-son realtionship you described is called “nurturing.” Something most white women have lost resulting in the breakdown of the nuclear family in the West.

“Getting it on” with prostitutes? The oldest profession. The moral taboos of casual sex in our culture is compensated by the acceptance of this sub-culture. These aren’t extramarital affairs nor are the men leaving their wives for the prostitutes. A necessary evil - a trade off. It may be looked down upon by you folks, yet it has actually kept families together. Again, unlike the west.

It may not be marrying up or down.In general, the Korean husband is unique in his own way and has more to offer than you give him credit for. On the other hand, O.J. Simpson is quite another story. Peace out Linda B..

Comment by therealmrkim

19 February 2006 @ 10:55 am

Sean,

You made alot of sense. My “trailer park” metaphors were used only to amplify my opinons. There are trailer trash and soju trash in both cultures.

My only disagreement was your discription of extramarital affairs. A Korean visiting a brothel in no way an extramarital affair. An affair is usually accompanied by an emotional attachment. To most korean men that do frequent these establishments, it is more or less a male bonding social practice with the benefit of stree reduction in a society that lays a heavy social burden on the Korean male and his role in it. To make my point, you very rarely see a korean man visit these places by themselves, it’s usually always a group event.

All in all, Sean, your points were well made. Thanks for broadening my views somewhat.

Comment by Kimchee Scent

20 February 2006 @ 3:08 pm

As a Korean man, I am very aware this is a divisive and senstive issue. If I say anything to frown on white stud/Korean babe couples, I’ll be vehemently accused of gross stupidty, and racism/sexism by most Korean women (including those who are married endogamously to Korean men).
As a Korean man in his 30s (under 35), this is an INTENSELY PAINFUL issue for Korean men for those who are mindful of this issue. This social phenomena/trend is advantageous for Korean women because it has broadened their pool of potential spouses by influx of white males whereas Korean men have to deal with new competition from whites in spite of the fact there’s girlfriend shortage from birth in Korean population due to higher birth of boys than girls (sex imbalance).
In mating game, most times it is the men who have to take the initiative (women can simply wait until men’s approach). If the man is of the dominant ethnicity (WHITE/CAUCASIAN), he has advantage over KOREAN MEN WHO ARE NOT OF DOMINANT ETHNICITY. There are other reasons such as white male sex appeal globally ensuing from Holywood blockbusters and etc. Crap….
I think, it is fair to say that the number of Korean girls going for white men will increase, but on the same token, the number of Korean men winning the hearts of white women will PROBABLY increase over time during next generations. It will take time. At the least few generations. However, since such change WILL NOT happen during my life time, I shall content myself with my singleness, even if it continues to my final days, and merely be a spectator in the mating game while ample Korean girls unite with white guys. I know that is not good for my own sake feeling wronged (because I’m not white) and miserable, and accepting it as my fate.
Please do not accuse me of sexism or racism. (It’s my observation that white man who take a Korean woman usually is not out there to attack a Korean man like myself.)

Comment by Linda B

20 February 2006 @ 8:06 pm

Mr. Kim,

According to the subtle eastern wisdom of the average Korean male… Korean males should be considered mysterious men of subtle spirituality who cannot be understood by whitey. In other words, we white-girls must UNDERSTAND YOU… but, conveniently are told we cannot — because we aren’t part of the mystic Korean culture.

When I see a Korean male dressed in business suit standing with his hands at his crotch, peeing against his proud new Korean sky-scraper, twisting his head to gawk at the white girl going by … as his drunken buddy beside him is laying a Korean pizza on the sidewalk … I will remember your mysterious ways.

May I suggest … it’s possible Korean men don’t UNDERSTAND THEMSELVES … because it would be too painful — may I suggest your true character is mercifully hidden under your nose. It takes an outside observer to objectively evaluate a Korean.

Here is a reality: A woman responds romantically to an attractive, mature, and kind male of any race … but, will naturally have an instinctual aversion to arrested development. Some cultures are better than others at cultivating a virile, sexy, man of virtue.

But, in my opinion … Korea does not… but then — of course, you don’t agree. You are Korean.

Not, an insult … just a true opinion. Thank You.

Comment by Zalah

21 February 2006 @ 1:17 am

Updated: 10:53 a.m. ET Feb. 10, 2006

SEOUL - Married South Korean women are the least happy with their sex lives, Japanese men are the most likely to try and dodge a certain sex problem and French men are the most fond of their frolicking, according to a recent survey.

The survey released this week by the pharmaceutical firm Eli Lilly and Co., one of the makers of the anti-impotence drug Cialis, of 1,200 married men and women in South Korea, Japan, France and the United States also found the French had the best sex lives followed by the Americans.

Lilly Korea said the findings would be released globally next week ahead of Valentine’s Day.

The main question is: Why are there fewer white women with Korean men then white men with Korean women?
Well, this says it all. There are very few white women who want to end up like these Korean ladies.

Comment by hardyandtiny

21 February 2006 @ 4:52 am

It’s because Asian adults look like children.

Comment by Ziggy Freud

21 February 2006 @ 9:41 am

Your assumptions are racist, disrespectful, and demeaning at best.

Uh-huh, whatever. I said nothing of race. Nothing at all. Korean is not a race. It’s a nationality. If you can’t see the difference, move on. Or have someone who does understand explain it to you. This conversation is by its nature intended for adults. Childish name-throwing just doesn’t cut it here.

Are you even fluent in korean? You should at least be bi-lingual to have better insight on koreans, not bi-sexual.

Uh, yes, as a matter of fact, I do speak Korean. Not that that would have damned thing to do with the points I made, but yeah, I’d wager a LOT of money that I speak Korean way better than you. I’ve probably lived here longer than you and paid more taxes to the ROK Government during my time here than you’ll pay in your entire coddled little life. But none of that is the least bit relevant to the points of this discussion. So drop it. You’re out of your league if you want to compare who is the “real” Korean.

The racist door swings both ways! You’re probably a white nerd/dork who couldn’t even make it or get laid in your own country. Only sex you get in Korea is by paying for it or by putting on a phony facade of something you’re not.

You are one weak little boy if that’s the best you’ve got. Accuse me of racism, then spout crap like this. What a toad. Your parents must be very proud of the money they spent educating you. I never made any statements about race. Go back and have someone read the prior posts to you.

Preying on the fascination and novelty of korean women towards foreigners. That’s like a child molester. Due to the general ignorance of white culture by most koreans, including your co-workers, they probably do not realize the racist, arrogant, dork they’re working with. You aren’t even a alpha male in your own culture, that’s why you stay in Korea.

I don’t know what to say. I’m not only a racist but also a child molester? Wow. Your debating skills are so overwhelmingly dominant that I guess everyone who disagrees with you on any topic whatsoever should just sit back and shut the hell up, no matter how valid their points. Right? It’s a shame you aren’t able to broadcast your hypocritical messages of hatred and ingorance to a larger audience. Then the world would see you for the arrogant and uninformed fraud that you really are.

And you’re accusing me of being racist? It’s plain for all here to see, you wouldn’t know racism if it bit you in the ass. You’ve never seen racism. You’ve never been a victim of racism. You have no clue what racism is. But you think you do, and that’s all that matters, right? And because you think you know what racism is, you feel you have every right to spread the disease as far and wide as you can cast it. It’s your right, isn’t it?

And of course, true racism can only be a filthy, nerdy, dorko, redneck, child molesting white man’s problem. Because noble Koreans, honorable descendants of Dangun, would never do such a thing as call other people derogatory names based on the color of their skin. That’s unthinkable.

Everything wrong with not only the world itself, but with your utter inability to form a logical argument and present it on a public forum, is completely the white man’s fault. That’s unbelievable.

You refused to address a single one of my points and spent your load of wrath instead smearing a person you’ve never even met, even assuming off the bat that I am a white guy. How interesting that you would take this tack.

Dude, your prejudices are showing. And people are starting to point and giggle.

Comment by KOREAN WOMANIZER

21 February 2006 @ 12:18 pm

White people and Korean girls who think White guys are hot,

I am a Korean man who has a White (Irish) girl friend. I hope you’ll all stop condescending Korean men. One of the things you are doing is stereotyping and objectifying Korean men. The Black Civil Rights Father, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. has said “We hold these truth be self-evident. ALL MEN are created equal.” which self-evidently is undisputed. Please give Korean men a fair eye, and we are equal with White men even though there are plenty of us who can’t help speaking English with Korean accent which ample White women find to be a big turn off.

+++ Another thing is this issue of WHITE MEN TAKING OVER ASIAN WOMEN IS TRUE NOT ONLY IN KOREAN BUT IN ALMOST ALL OTHER ASIAN COUNTRIES (Japan, China, Taiwan, Burma, Phillippines and etc…) If the condescending remarks are true about Korean men, are they also true about Japanes, Burmese, Chinese, Hong Kong men…? No doubt some of you white people and Korean girls will say “YES”, but please use some common sense and logic. This kind of web blog debate is mutually hurtful and unhealthy for both Asian and White community.

+++ While at it, I want to ask a question to White girls who are reading. Since, a LOT of your men are taking Asian girls, does that not create disparity or lack of White men in your White community? OR does it pretty much even out because a lot of you are successful in stealing black men from black women (who incidently end up griping and whining BLONDES TAKING THEIR OWN MEN).

Comment by therealmrkim

22 February 2006 @ 8:36 am

Ziggy,
I guess when you’re not a follower, people might start to “point and giggle.”

It’s easier to be a sheep and stay within the flock.

Diversity also includes opposing points of views.

Linda B,
Some good points made.
Can’t refute the peeing against sky-scrapers

Trackback by From the Nakdong to the Yalu

23 February 2006 @ 12:36 pm

More white guy, Asian girl stuff

At the risk of starting another potential flame war in my comments section, I direct you to this video (and ensuing conversation) over at Ruminations in Korea.

…

Comment by chonos

23 February 2006 @ 3:09 pm

any white women interested in real mongol man, we’re the fittest of all asians

Comment by Noah Body

23 February 2006 @ 3:34 pm

>new competition from whites in spite of the fact
>there’s girlfriend shortage from birth in Korean
>population due to higher birth of boys than
>girls (sex imbalance).

Here’s a comment that answered itself. Why is there a sex imbalance in Korea? Because too many people think boys are better than girls. Those girls grow up and decide they’d rather be with someone who respects them.

As my old drinking friend (old Korean guy) used to tell me (when he recalled a failed relationship with a white woman years past):
“Korean men think they are number one. White women think they are number one. Together, no good. But white men think they are number two. Korean women think they are number two. Together, that’s okay.”

Comment by Oregon

23 February 2006 @ 4:30 pm

“Korean men think they are number one. White women think they are number one. Together, no good. But white men think they are number two. Korean women think they are number two. Together, that’s okay.”

LOL, brilliant observation. I’d love to use this somewhere in my writing.

Comment by Cynthia

23 February 2006 @ 4:56 pm

I think this is a cultural issue not limited to Korean men, but all men from nonwestern countries. Relatively speaking, women in the U.S. and other western countries are on more equal footing with males (some people might take issue with this point). For many women,it might seem like a step back to marry someone who believes (figuratively) that the man is the king of the castle, and the wife is to remain barefoot and pregnant.

In contrast, western men may be attracted to nonwestern women for the opposite reason (ie:the men can wear the pants in the family).

It would seem logical to me that Asian (or nonwestern) women would be attracted to western men because there is the possibility of more equal footing with their partner.

Another point, which someone brought up, is the acceptance of married men (Asian) going to prostitutes and how that is not the same thing as an affair. Very true, but maybe not in the eyes of western women. Sex outside the relationship tends to signal a problem in the relationship, so it might as well be an affair.

None of this is to say the man/woman relationships in nonwestern countries are wrong or worse (can’t think of the right word), but just different, which could be a barrier for mixed culture relationships, especially where western women and nonwestern men are concerned.

Comment by dogbert

23 February 2006 @ 4:58 pm

“Statistics do not lie.”

That is true. And statistics show that the difference between the rates of divorce in Korea and the United States is now insignificant.

Comment by dogbert

23 February 2006 @ 5:04 pm

Kimchee Scent, how can white males in Korea consitute significant competition to you when they number fewer than 1% of the total population of Korea? Despite the rapidly increasing gender imbalance (for which Koreans themselves are to blame), there is absolutely no way in which you can blame the white man for your failure to marry. Good Lord, just sign up at Duo or something.

In addition, it is surely the Korean man who is the dominant male in Korea. That certainly seems to be their attitude, at least.

Comment by Joel

23 February 2006 @ 7:00 pm

I don’t know any woman who thinks she is number 2.

The real question is what are those characters on the dudes shirt talking about? I can only make out 3. The rest are just a blur to me and my knowledge of 한자 is not enough to make up the difference. I assume it is talking about white people but I defer to the experts “白人?不?”…

Comment by MM

23 February 2006 @ 10:15 pm

Just as in the video, all the ugly Asian girls go for the white guys with huge McDonald butts.

LOL.

Comment by Corpy Carly

23 February 2006 @ 10:30 pm

“According to ministry statistics, for every two couples that married in 2002, almost one couple divorced. The South Korean divorce rate was just behind those of the U.S. and Sweden, 51 percent and 48 percent, respectively.”

That’s from Yonhap.

“It is true, women do marry up. To marry a korean man would be marrying up. Unlike some others, korean men have less children out of wedlock, low divorce rates (can count on them to be there), hard working, generally educated, loyal family oriented men. I guess this would be marrying down.”

That isn’t exactly as accurate a statement as Mr. Kim may believe it to be.

Comment by nig

24 February 2006 @ 12:16 am

Also I think its worthwhile factoring in the structure of Korean society into this. In Korea and in a relationship with a Korean man, a Korean woman is often valued based only on her qualifications and family background.

A relationship with a foreigner can often be seen as a way to escape being seen as low level simply because of a Non-Seoul degree scroll and family status.

From the opposing point of view fitting into a structured Korean society as a foreign woman must seem very daunting and almost impossible with some families. I think in order to have a successful relationship with a western woman, Korean men would have to completely break away from the traditional Korean family structure. Not many men have the ability to succesfully do this.

I knew many women in Korea who were very curious about Korean men but they could not find a guy who was open minded enough to even get past the initial stages of getting together. In my opinion the situation will not change anytime soon because of this.

I also met a Korean guy who had a Irish girlfriend. He was from from Gimhae. I wonder is it the Korean Womanizer poster above. Nice fella but you could tell straight away that he was way more sophisticated and progressive (in a western sense) than most Korean men. Thats why he was successful.

Comment by Juggertha

24 February 2006 @ 12:46 am

I love the video. I’m glad to seesomeone approaching the subject with the (lack of) seriousness it deserves.

Trackback by Guns and Butter Blog

24 February 2006 @ 1:23 am

Lots of WM/AF, Not Enough AM/WF?

In all seriousness, some Asian-American observers consider prevalence of Asian male/white female couples a mark of Asian assimilation in a given region. I guess that makes Seattle Asians highly assimilated as I have never seen as many AM/WF couples e…

Comment by bud

24 February 2006 @ 10:27 am

For a serious take on the racial imbalance in dating relationships, read Steven Barnes’ archives at
the Dar Kush blog. Steven is a pretty good writer who happens to be black, and muses frequently on racial subjects.

email is human readable - aloud

Comment by Mag

24 February 2006 @ 10:47 am

I’ll tell you why white guys go for Asian gals. It’s because white gals are hideous hippos. Their atitudes reminds of you of men. They also get old very quickly.

Comment by Brit pride

24 February 2006 @ 2:30 pm

All those Korean male posters who come here feel threatened about us white guys taking their women. That is why they post on this blog. I am sorry about you all feeling threatened, and I want to give you an advise for I myself am a British guy with a Korean girlfriend in Seoul.

When you see a White guy with your own women, don’t get involved. It will be futile and will do you no good. She can decide for herself what she wants.

Furthermore, those who mind other people’s business are just punks, and I am afraid there are plenty of Korean guys who fit this category. Please learn some manners and butt out of white guy/korean girl relationships.

Comment by Luciana

24 February 2006 @ 3:05 pm

My all of the heated feelings about this one topic that has been a big interest of mine and many of my white girlfriends. We always wondered why Korean men were so afraid to approach unless maybe drunk and somewhat more relaxed, but then after many discussions we heard that Korean men thought White women were like the ones in dirty movies; that we liked big black men. That’s been like a hidden sterotype in itself. So, while living in Korea and totally embracing it’s lifestyle and culture I was dating a wonderful Korean man. At first, it was only a friendship because of the so called Taboo of things; his parents being racist But, we couldn’t deny the attraction any longer. Yes, the relationship did develop into something very very wonderful and meaningful. The sad part was when I had to return to America and leave him behind as well as my heart ):
So, you decide

Comment by jay elle

24 February 2006 @ 3:31 pm

the video was cute! i just fell upon it. have no fear though, there are some of us AA gals who won’t ever cross over to the “light” side. i’ve dabbled here and there but came quickly to the realiziation that i will be forever loyal to my brown brothers. there are certain things a white boy is never going to understand- like the fact that eating rice and kimchee for breakfast is perfectly acceptable, or that spam is truly delicious. and if i have to ask you to remove your shoes after you step into my home… it just isn’t going to work. i will forever remain loyal to my kind because there is a gap that just can’t be covered. (plus, i’d like my children to have jet black hair and nice almond shaped eyes. seriously.)

Rich may have been right though- “small confidence”- that is an issue. but about Indian guys… well in my neck of the woods, they are the new arm candy. with Microsoft and Indians in abundance, it’s a growing trend. ha.

nice blog. i’ll have to check back in and read.

Comment by gaemee

24 February 2006 @ 3:34 pm

Korea would be better off without marrying or making babies with any foreigners as it would lower average IQ of the population.

Comment by Kimchee Scent

24 February 2006 @ 3:50 pm

dogbert,
I appreciate your view point in saying that white males are no competition in Korean dating market and korean males are dominant in Korea (in their own country if I understood you right???). That is a little encourging.

There are plenty of Korean male with powerful enough and attractive personality which they have the right to at least in their own country. On micro level, it is more than natural that at least in Korea, Korean males should be comfortable in leading the Korean society just as all males in all countries do. BUT, there are ample evidences that Korea is very dependant on white countries (mostly America and their occupying armed forces). On macro level, it is undisputable that Korea is very much under white influence.

I have not looked at the white male population statistics in Korea, but what I am saying is where there are high concentration of whites (both male & female), it’s far more easier to see WM/KF couples than KM/WF couples. However, like I said in coming generations a such askew racial imbalance in dating/marrying will probably change depending on how socioeconmoic status of different countries change. In my opinion, as China becomes a more and more serious threat to US, that can be a starting point for the rise of Asian males. Perhaps in about several hundred years it will be Chinese will replace English as the universal language of the world. Then it may the white males who will have to suffer for not being able to speak perfect Asian language when trying to take an Asian woman.

Sign up with Duo?? What kind of response would you get if you were to tell a single American guy to sign up with eHarmony?

You’ve come here because you are a white male dating/married to a Korean female. THAT I DON’T CARE ABOUT IN THE SLIGHTEST. I wish you the best of luck doing whatever you do in Korea (teaching English??)

I can’t believe I am typing this. Debating on this kind of topic will not be to my benefit, but I want to exit by saying that this kind of imbalance in anything in human society cannot go on permanent. Eventually , given time, it will inevitably change.

Comment by gaemee

24 February 2006 @ 8:20 pm

Linda B,

“What takes one Japanese worker to do within a work organization, it takes 7 inefficient Korean males”

If a Japanese man is 7 times as efficient or hard-working as a Korean man, then Japanese per capita GDP should be about 7 times as high as that of Korea. But it’s not. It’s about 1.5 times according to CIA fact book ($30,400 vs $20,300). Although you didn’t include Korean women, it shouldn’t make much difference in your argument, even if they’re not as bad as their male counterparts, as women in Korea and Japan take relatively minor roles in their workforces. But I think it may still be possible you ‘re right, in which case your observation just strengthens my belief that Koreans are brainier than the Japanese. At the end of the day it’s not how hard you work, but how well you work that counts.

Somebody mentioned women “marry up” and men “marry down”. Is that why far more white women marry black men than vice versa?

I also noticed that women, perhaps except the brainy ones, tend to prefer brawns to brains (what does it say about women in general?), and that’s why the murderers and rapists and gangsters are much more likely to be successful in sexual courtships than university professors. And I see many women in America get into abusive relationships and stay in them, even though they know their partners are abusive. What does it say about many American women?

Comment by Luciana

25 February 2006 @ 3:13 am

Gamee~
Do you actually believe,”Korea would be better off without marrying or making babies with any foreigners as it would lower average IQ of the population?” Are you really that narrow minded of a person to make such ridiculous remarks? It sounds like you have a vendetta towards foreigners for some sad reason. I pity people of any race, culture or background that think the same as you. Get the facts before stating such outlandish and racist remarks, please!!

Comment by Prince Roy

25 February 2006 @ 1:11 pm

Joel:
白人看不懂
means…’white people can’t read this’

Comment by Linda

25 February 2006 @ 4:04 pm

I’ve read through most of these comments. Skimmed through some. Almost everyone here are pointing fingers at someone else. Why? So what if you see Asian girls flock to the Caucasion male? I mean, is there a problem? What if a Korean male takes a leak on the side of a building? I seem to remember Adam Sandler doing the same exact thing in Big Daddy. Korean male this, white female that. If you all want to point a finger, it should be at yourselves for holding such old fashioned beliefs. Open your minds. It IS the year 2006 and this video was made to put everyone at ease; not to increase debates amongst different races. I’ve never seen adults act in such a childish way. There are bad people everywhere. RACE/NATIONALITY DOES NOT MATTER! -sigh-

Anywho, the video was great fun! I found it absolutely adorable and witty.

Comment by mahathir_fan

25 February 2006 @ 5:32 pm

I am a Chinese male and I think Asian women are the most beautiful women in the world. That’s why you do not see me dating white women.

The media tells me white women are objects of desire but I simply don’t connect with them. Its like Italian food. I am told Italian food is very tasty and romantic, but having tried it, I found Italian food to be tasteless.

Comment by Joel

27 February 2006 @ 8:42 am

Thank you Prince Roy.

Comment by Mike

27 February 2006 @ 11:41 am

I’m an Asian male but I’m not attracted to white women.
This is probably similiar to white women not attracted to Asian men. So the feelings are mutual.

That video was fun, but it’s really not accurate. Asian men have been so demonized by the American media as non sexual, nerdy, uncoordinated, evil gangs with funny chinky accents that white women have been thoroughly turned off and brain washed. Even if they’re attracted to Asian men, they would probably try to hide it from their friends. Just like the movie Bruce Lee’s biography.

Comment by Suzy from Cali

27 February 2006 @ 2:44 pm

You white people dont even know what youre talking about, because im a korean girl living in southern california, and i would hate to get with a white guy. There has been so many white guys that have hit on me, but i wouldnt give them the time of day. and most of my girlfriends wouldnt get with a white guy either. white people dont hold strong values, morals, and class.. we prefer to stick with korean men… we would also never get with other types of asians, because koreans stick with their own kind.. white guys think they can get asian girls, when in reality theyre just being used until these girls realise they need to get married and settle down. i dont see any asian girls marrying white guys… and if you do, those girls arent korean… and plus, theres probably many reasons why they settled for a white guy.. asian guys probably didnt want to get with them.. also, asian guys are more successful in the economy worldwide… and i have seen plenty of white girls after asian guys.. its just a lot of the time, these asian guys arent as cocky as white guys.. and everyone knows younger women are drawn to cocky guys.. anyways, it comes down to the fact that asian guys, korean guys in particular, have way more money, power, education, and good upbringings than whites.. korean guys are confident, yet they can be dominant.. dream on whiteys..

Comment by Jeff in Korea

27 February 2006 @ 3:57 pm

Mike….First.. It is not a serious social commentary. It is funny video made by a bunch of kids.

Second. I know this is not really related to your comment, but it was just something I thought of. Reading your comment, it made me think about how everyone is demonized by everyone elses media.. you could say the same thing about Korea.

Korean TV is fun, but it’s really not accurate. white men have been so demonized by the Korean media as over-sexed, nerdy, uncoordinated, evil gangs with funny exaggerated accents, that Korean women have been thoroughly abused and brain washed.

Comment by Jeff in Korea

27 February 2006 @ 4:00 pm

Suzy, I don’t normally say this about my readers, although I probably should say it more,but you are an ignorant idiot. I hope you are 12 years old. Otherwise, you have no excuse for being such an ignorant idiot.

Comment by R.C.

27 February 2006 @ 7:39 pm

Can we really criticize when two people of any race are in love (or even in lust!)? I am a product of a Mexican mother and a half-Japanese father. Despite their different backgrounds, they love each other very much (and my father’s white father loved his Japanese wife). I am dating a Korean guy and couldn’t be happier. I doubt I’ll marry him, just as I doubt those white guys will marry those Korean girls, but at this moment in time he makes me very happy–what else could I ask for?

We can start throwing labels and generalizations around (Korean guys are this; and white girls act this way, etc.), but those never hold up as true. I doubt my boyfriend pees on skyscrapers and frequents prostitues (god, I hope not), and I hope that I’m not a hippo or a slut. Sure, we have our cultural differences that have resulted in a squabble now and then, but what it comes down to: we love each other. Black, white, Asian, 1/2 Hispanic 1/4 Japanese; human. We smile when we are happy, we cry when we are sad.

Comment by Mistah C.

27 February 2006 @ 8:22 pm

Hey jeff, calm down I am sure a smart guy such as yourself would have realized this topic would become a Springerfest: flypaper to the cross burners and loudmouths on both sides of the aisle. Just enjoy the show and yell “TAKE IT OFF! TAKE IT OFF!”

I bet Suzie “white people dont hold strong values, morals, and class” and Rick “For a white woman to marry a Korean man, it is marrying down.” get drunk at a party and wind up living in a trailer together for the next 10 years.

Comment by Kevin Yann

28 February 2006 @ 12:42 am

This is actually a very interesting article that relates to the topic.

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/43fea69e0dd28

Comment by Suzy

28 February 2006 @ 3:58 am

Jeff, let me tell you how much of an idiot and a moron you are.. your blogs have no purpose except to demoralize Koreans, yet youre the idiot in my country earning our money from whatever purpose youre living in Korea for… youre an uneducated bastard that couldnt deal with the American society, so you chose to run away to Korea.. how pathetic can you get? If youre gonna criticize my country, please do the Koreans the favor and take your cracker hick ass back to boonesville.. how ignorant are you to criticize my country, when America is run by Bush? Please stop writing in your blog… it just upsets everyone, and you just seem desperate screaming for attention.. and im pretty damn sure that you have all these negative thoughts in your monkey ass brain, because Koreans dont accept you in their society… youll always be identified as a worthless money hungry bastard teaching smart korean kids your illiterate knowledge of so called English.. and theyll always view white people as people who earn easy money in Korea teaching tacky English, prostitute chasing, belligerent drunks in our society… i suggest you hurry up and leave Korea, get a college degree, and die a pathetic bitter death in America.. please do us Koreans a favor before your pessimistic views come to a hault once something horrible happens to you.. and i listened to your unimpressive audio blogs trying to justify the fact that you still love my country.. so basically youre contradicting yourself.. why torture yourself in my country, when the simple thing to do is leave? why??? because youre not accepted by white people.. but the same thing is happening there in Korea so as might as well just disappear to a country elsewhere.. are you bitter because of the fact that Koreans protest against America? why shouldnt we.. we have every reason to protest against bush.. do you see korean-americans posting pitiful blogs like you do.. do you have that much time in your hands? oh, wait i know, you have easy money coming in as a english tutor.. im pretty sure thats the most you can accomplish in your life time.. as for me, i taught myself how to read and write my native language.. so i have the benefit of adjusting to America and Korea.. unlike yourself.. white people like you make me want to scream, and start hating white people.. which i dont want to do in order for me to make money off of you guys.. havent you realized that Korea is one the the leading economies right now? you should stop talking because America needs our countries’ technology.. you guys cant get anywhere without Korea.. plus im glad our North Korea is threatening America.. you always need America to be scared like shitheads and walk on eggshells.. the media in America are for white morons who actually believe in that crap.. haha… and please dont ever get with a korean woman after talking all that trash… which im sure thats what youre planning on, because it comes down to the fact that Korean women are better than white women in every possible way..

Comment by All the Asian Brothers!!!!!! YOU ALL NEED TO GO TO EUROPE!!!!!!!!!

28 February 2006 @ 7:04 am

Hey, to all the Asian Brothers out there!!!!! You all need to go to Europe before you die.

Why, cause European WHite Girls have a Fever for asian guys!!!!!!

If you go to Germany, Holland, France, and England. You do not even need to approach women, White girls will approach you as long as you are Asian. Before you go there, just make sure you get TAN, and be polite to the White Girls out there. Then I can assure you that you will get a lot of attentions.

American White Girls are too afriad of Asian Guys, cuase they are very sterotypical, and cares what others might say about them. So just foget them.

If you like BLONDE, go to SWEDEN, DENMARK, or NORWAY.
If you like Party girls go to HOLLAND, GERMANY, and FRANCE.

Any way, European Girls show much more INTERSTS and much more OPEN to Date and HAVE SEX whit ASIAN GUYS than American Girls.

Comment by a

28 February 2006 @ 7:07 am

that movie is funny

Comment by koreabskin

28 February 2006 @ 1:11 pm

Suzy,

Well said, my korean sister.
L-O-V-E-D I-T.

Jeff,

For entertainment purposes only!
Do not try this at home.
*Thank’s for the platform*
Peace Out…

Comment by Luciana

28 February 2006 @ 1:18 pm

Suzy~
Please stop the bitter and hating ways against your fellow humans; there’s no need for that! You make yourself sound like a complete FOOL and it’s represents your culture in such a negative light. By the way, Suzy if you hate America and our people so much, why the HELL do you still live in California? That’s very interesting.

Comment by Grom

28 February 2006 @ 1:31 pm

I think a lot of this bittterness comes from outside of Korea - particularly from Korean Americans. I’m a white guy married to a Korean and we have a beautiful, smart daughter. The people here are great to her, in fact, they are far too friendly and kind at times! I think single white guys with Korean girls sometimes have problems as Koreans think they are not serious, but once you marry, and especially if you have kids, any such problems disappear.

That comment about kids with parents from different cultures lowering the IQ of the population is hopelessly inaccurate and offensive. And it is a fact, in fact, that widening the gene pool does just the opposite …

Comment by Andy

28 February 2006 @ 1:44 pm

Suzy is a Korean MALE threatened by white males taking his own women both in Korean and in America.

Comment by Jeff in Korea

28 February 2006 @ 2:08 pm

Suzy, Suzy, Suzy. I see now that you truly are a hopelessly ignorant idiot. You post clearly showed the unfathomable depths of your ignorance and your utter stupidity as a person, regardless of your age, which unfortunately for the human gene pool, seems to be well above the age of 12.

Although this is a complete waste of my time, it is a slow day at the office so I will hit the high points of your ignorance and idiocy:

“youre an uneducated bastard that couldnt deal with the American society, so you chose to run away to Korea.. how pathetic can you get?”

Umm… Where to start? First, My father and mother were legally married at the time of my conception and birth. Second, “uneducated” is not a word that describes me. A glance at my wall shows seven diplomas, degrees, and licenses. By all rights, I could insist on calling myself “Dr. Jeff in Korea,” but I find the use of such titles outside of the relevant academic spheres to be pretentious and unnecessary. Let’s just say that I have plenty of post-college graduate education.

“how ignorant are you to criticize my country, when America is run by Bush?”

There are things called “logic” and “making sense”. Check into them. “you are ignorant for criticizing Korea because Bush is president of the US”? HUH?

“Please stop writing in your blog… it just upsets everyone,”

You seem to be the only one upset here. Small minds like yours would get upset by factual observations about society and at humor.

“and you just seem desperate screaming for attention.”

Not really. I regularly turn down newspaper, television, and radio interview requests. I turn down invitations to sit on panels, to sit on boards of directors, to participate in think tanks. I do all of these things specifically to avoid attention.

“youll always be identified as a worthless money hungry bastard teaching smart korean kids your illiterate knowledge of so called English.”

That is an odd thing to say. Why would Koreans identify me as an English teacher when I do not and never will teach English here? Why would they view me as worthless when a huge part of my job is to help Korean individuals and Korean businesses get as much money as possible?

“and theyll always view white people as people who earn easy money in Korea teaching tacky English, prostitute chasing, belligerent drunks in our society…”

How is that my problem? If Koreans view all white people that way without knowing the truth, then that is the problem of you and other Koreans not mine. I am not responsible for your ignorace, prejudice, and idiocy. That’s all on you.

As a side note, I find in interesting and amusing that a Korean would point a finger at a “whitey” for being a prostitute-chasing, beligerant drunk. I wonder what the percentage of Korean men who have ever retained the services of a prostitute is compared to the percentage of white males throughout the world who have done so would be. I’m sure you wouldn’t like the answer.

“i suggest you hurry up and leave Korea, get a college degree.”

See above. I have multiple university degrees. How many do you think I should have?

“why torture yourself in my country, when the simple thing to do is leave?”

Who said I was tortured? You seem much more tortured than me. There is nothing torturing about living in Korea for me. Being fluent in Korean makes living here very easy. I get a better shake in most situations that any native Korean would get. Don’t worry about me.

“why??? because youre not accepted by white people.”

Hmmm… I’m pretty well accepted by white people including ordinary individuals, government officials, business executives, etc. etc. etc.

“are you bitter because of the fact that Koreans protest against America?”

Nope. Not bitter about it at all. I just find it amusing because it is pointless and futile. Koreans should bring their complaints to the one group that can do something about it; the Korean government. Protest away! I have lived here since the time when protestors were hauled away and thrown in jail by Korea’s military dictatorship government for voicing their opinions. I’m glad to see that Koreans have the right to protest. Long live freedom of speech…even yours, Suzy.

“oh, wait i know, you have easy money coming in as a english tutor.”

Ignorant prat. You don’t know anything. I would never willingly take such a huge pay cut to become an English teacher.

“i taught myself how to read and write my native language.. so i have the benefit of adjusting to America and Korea.. unlike yourself.”

What do you mean “unlike yourself.” I taught myself to read, write and speak your native language too, and I would bet that both my Korean and English are better than yours. That is certainly the case if your lack of puctuation, capitalization, and paragraphs is any indication of your abilities.

“white people like you make me want to scream, and start hating white people.”

It’s sad and frustrating for you, Suzy, to be inferior to a white person, isn’t it?

Comment by Patty

28 February 2006 @ 9:23 pm

Wow.

So much verbage.

I am white, married to a Korean man - who is 1st generation Korean - American. We are both highly educated and both have married up and both down depending on how our marriage is viewed and where we are living.

Based purely on how my children are treated, my husband has married up in marrying me. Here his children are “beautiful, amazing, super intelligent” (because they speak perfect english) and very very popular. In the U.S. - they are not white.

Based on my position in a family - innitially my family thought my husband was marrying down to marry me - but since I am so helpful and the children so beautiful, they now feel otherwise. I am treated like a princess. HOWEVER, he is the youngest son.

In the U.S., I think it is pretty much better to be white. If we need to deal to beaurocracy… I am the choice person - because I get treated because I am white and he has a slight accent and is asian….

so… since we married in the U.S. and usually live ther… I married down.. or did I marry up…..

or just right?

Honestly, in the U.S., on the marriage market - I could not get as good a man as he is. He could get a better Korean woman than I in terms of educational/family/social standing, but no one with my communication multi-cultural skills. In the U.S., and I think elsewhere, a white woman can easily marry up just as many white men marry up by marrying Asian women. i.e. no American in her right mind would marrry that guy… but look he has that gorgeous Korean girl on his arm. Sometimes Korean women say this to me - especially because I don’t always dress up or wear make up or look the prof’s wife part —- “You are so lucky. Your husband is so much nicer than most Korean men , so sweet and gentle” (and sometimes they mean I don’t deserve this…) The fact is that he treats women the way Americans treat women snce he is very “Americanized”… which is just different and not always better than Korean men.

Overall, marrying eachother, we have both married up and down. We have unusual lives because of it, and I believe that overall our children will benefit if they don’t get overly messed up by being mixed and having everyone tell them how beautiful they are in Seoul. We have a harder time and also we have more opportunities. I hope that someday we translate literature together. Certainly, we have more problems than average people of the same culture - but I like to think we have more to gain from cultural trade: ). My happy imagination is to take the best of both cultures for our lives.

…. just my comment……
Patty

Comment by bluejives

1 March 2006 @ 2:36 am

Hi folks,
I was directed here via a link from the “Naktong to the Yalu”.

I’m an enthusiatic peruser of the Korea expat blogs and consider myself to be an avid student of Expat mentality.

Fred Reed wrote an article where he explains why white men have such an affinity for asian women. I would like to direct your attention to it here:

Why white men prefer asian women

I think he hits it right on the spot and I think what he wrote is representative of the attitude and beliefs of the vast majority of white males in regard to this issue.

Trackback by Bluejives Uncertain Reality Principle (BURP)

1 March 2006 @ 6:44 am

Korean girls call me ‘oppa’, White girls call me ‘oppie’

Recently, down at the Hub of Expat Blogs, the Marmot posted this topic, which he in turn got from here. First of all, let me just say posting anything about interracial relationships is really a cheap and dirty way to

Comment by Matt

1 March 2006 @ 9:11 am

Jeff, you rock dude!

Koreans-Americans like Suzy (who is probably a guy, but possibly a woman) have a tendency to call whites in Korea trash or burger flippers without considering the millions of Koreans in the US, and most that left Korea to emigrate to the US were much poorer circumstances and levels of education than the handful white temporary expats in Korea.

I bet I could speak, read and write Korean better (self taught) that Suzy as well, along with reading Chinese characters. Add my English ability, and ability to speak, read and write Japanese as well, that must mean that Suzy and her family are Korean trash that couldnt hack it in Korea and had to go to America where they could earn more than a dollar an hour.

Comment by Mike

1 March 2006 @ 12:12 pm

Anyone else believe “Suzy” is really a Korean American?
NOT.

After a while, it’s easy to pick upon troll baits that’s over the top to reinforce and double inforce the stereotype of Koreans as racist xenophobic hateful “oori nara saram”. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeff wrote it himself.

1) “havent you realized that Korea is one the the leading economies right now?”

2) “a worthless money hungry bastard teaching smart korean kids your illiterate knowledge of so called English.. ”

3) “i taught myself how to read and write my native language.. so i have the benefit of adjusting to America and Korea..”

4) “you should stop talking because America needs our countries’ technology.. ”

5) “you guys cant get anywhere without Korea.. plus im glad our North Korea is threatening America.. ”

6) “you always need America to be scared like shitheads and walk on eggshells.. the media in America are for white morons who actually believe in that crap.. haha… ”

Uh-hu.. yeah right, “Korean American”. Whatever.

Comment by Jeff in Korea

1 March 2006 @ 1:04 pm

Suzy: Sorry… rant’s like the one you don’t see here are not going to get published. Whatever you are stop being a troll and/or grow up. Hope you enjoyed writing all that stuff that is not going to get published here.

Bluejives: Very interesting link. I hadn’t thought about it, but i think the writer makes very good points. I very much liked his point about women being ladies. As an extension of his writing, anyone who bases their attraction to asian womean on the standard stereotypes — easy, submissive, subserviant — are in for an incredibly rude awakening at some point in their relationship.

Matt: yeah. It is pretty clear at this point what Suzy is.

Mike: ME? Write that? huh-huh. why would I do that and where would I get the time. Nope. Not me. Just amusing to read it. I would guess that Suzy is a white (possibly Korean-western) male troll.

Comment by The Goat

1 March 2006 @ 3:35 pm

The recent discussions on various boards has led to a great deal of introspction. Just why do I like Korean women? After going over all of the unsupported claims of many, I came up with my answer.

Becasue I live in Korea.

I am fairly certain that if I lived in XXXX I would have a thing for the women from XXXX too.

Comment by Leenash

1 March 2006 @ 6:06 pm

I am an American white woman who just read the Fred Reed rant. I quote him ” As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.”

What a bunch of woman-bashing bullshit … if I get a hold of that man, I will castrate the bastard!

Comment by dogbert

1 March 2006 @ 8:24 pm

Bluejives: “I’m an enthusiatic peruser of the Korea expat blogs and consider myself to be an avid student of Expat mentality.”

This has to be the funniest thing I’ve read this week.

Comment by Jeff in Korea

2 March 2006 @ 2:26 am

Suzy - from you latest comment that didn’t get posted - “Jeff, youre so threatened by my last comment that you couldnt even post it?”

Nope. Not even close. Despite being a troll, if you had the ability to post what you said in your last two comments without the use of the vulgarity, profanity, and the use of offensive terminology for the Japanese, then I would be happy to post your little comments. See if you can be an adult.

Comment by koreanskin

2 March 2006 @ 5:34 am

Jeff,

Besides the extremist view points of people like Suzy and myself, the postings have been very entertaining. Even comical at times.

This open forum format has accomodated a vast and diverse range of views which I believe, in the long run, is a positive. Discussion ultimately broadens a persons perpective. Including my “ethnocentric” views. I have been enlightened a little by it.

Thanks to you Jeff and the rest of the bloggers. The regulars and the “trolls” both benefit in this symbiotic relationship.

To all the well intended netizens and trolls, peace out and much love for your fellow man.

Comment by passerByKoreanMale

2 March 2006 @ 7:59 am

Everything said here about Korean men, good or bad, is true. Yes, guilty as charged. Many of my friends were like that and myself included. I thought you guys were talking about me. Yes, I used to wet the dark corners of the skyscrappers but I thought nobody was looking. Apology to the ladies who saw me. Hard working, smart, male chauvinistic? Yes, hum..yes, and according my wife(Korean, of course) yes. I was also competitive, reckless, hot tempered, egoistic guy.

I am now a forty something year old Korean male who came here many years ago as a student. Had to get away from all those tear gas for a while but stayed here too long. I don’t know whether I am getting old or too much accustomed to relaxed life here but I seemed to have lost all that edge. I once tried to get back into Korea. I thought my Economics Ph.D from one of Big 10 schools was worth something but could not impress anyone. “Where?” is their usual response from those who got theirs from Harvard, Chicago, Berkely, MIT or Stanford and there were so many of them. I migrated one university after another as an adjunct. After five years of trying I gave up. Now I am back here playing golf again.

Yes, I could not hack back into Korea. Guilty again. Fortunately life is good here too. My only daughter do not even know how to speak Korean. This reduces my chance of going back even smaller.

It is also true, come to think of it and looking back, that I could not date any white females. They looked so beautiful to me who just came from Korea and who had only seen three or four white, rather obese, female GIs in uniform. I had so many young white females with blond hair, big blue eyes and perfectly straight pointed nose in my history class I still remeber. I just wanted to be friend with them let alone dating. No one took me seriously. They could not have known that I was such a male chauvinistic and egomaniac because I could not even start any relationship with them. It must have been something else. Could it be my broken English with horrible accent? I was popular among asian girls. I dated pretty much all asian nationalities. I was wildly popular among chinese girls for the reason remains mystery to date.

Oh well. All my good and bad traits of Korean male are mellowing as I am getting old and americanized for better or worse. I will tell you one strange secret before I go. I think one of my colleagues who is thirty something and quite beautiful white female is attracted to me. Could it be just my imagination?

A passerby Korean

Comment by Seoul A-Guy

2 March 2006 @ 3:25 pm

I am a white guy who has been blessed with Korean females since I’ve came to Korea. Been here 3 months. I’ve already been with 44 Korean females (aged from 20 to 54). Those Korean females will do anything for you white bros.
(If you can’t get a girl to like you in home town, don’t worry. Come to Korean like I did. It will solve your problem.) I can’ be believe how happy I am these days in Korea.
BTW, I want to ask Korean readers why is it that so many Korean females like white males.

Comment by The Goat

2 March 2006 @ 3:35 pm

passerByKoreanMale…

I think if you eliminated “Korean” from your post and changed a few details here and there it could be quite true for a good number of men out there.

Comment by bluejives

3 March 2006 @ 2:26 am

BTW, I want to ask Korean readers why is it that so many Korean females like white males.

Because sometimes people just have this hankering for something that is different. I think you know what I mean.

Getting back on topic, I’d like to point out some challenges that Korean males (or any Asian for that matter) in explaining why so few Asian men are with White women. This is information that I’ve garnered in an Asian-American context but it may apply to the situation in Korea as well.

1. White guys tend to do a far better job in conveying their interest in Asian women than Korean men in White women or any non-Korean women for that matter. This is in terms of body language or actually saying something. Korean guys are acutely self-conscious about their inadequate English speaking ability, for instance.

2. When they do show some sort of body language, it often comes across as “leering”. Women dont like that. Dont just stare; say something.

3. White women have this perception that Korean men are only interested in them as an “exotic fling” but not for serious relationships.

4. The staring problem. If a Korean man is with a White woman in public, they will get stared at ALOT. Koreans have a bad habit of staring; but not only that, they will do so pretty blatently too. This can get very uncomfortable esp if it is a new experience. Therefore the guy acts “distant”. This will piss off the girl and can be a dealbreaker.

5. The formality and strictness of Confucian culture can be pretty intimidating to the foreign mind. They look for little hints which indicate that you are apart from that mold.

6. Asian-American males tend to think that White women would not be interested in them due to racism. But women are far more bothered by sexism than racism. The two are orthogonal to each other.

7. The entertainment-media complex does a major disservice to Asian males in Western countries and White females in Asian countries. When two groups dont know much about each other, they go by what they have seen in movies, etc. This is the reason why any white foreigner in Korea is by default a “migook-saran” (thank Hollywood for that) and white women have this image of being promiscuous sluts (again, thank Hollywood). Koreans need to be aware that a lot of their perceptions about foreigners may have been affected by such influences. But thinking people have the ability to overcome the virtual reality warp field.

In general, it probably takes a lot more guts for an average Asian guy to approach a White woman than it does for a White guy to approach an Asian woman. A White guy doesnt have to wonder if his “White-ness” counts against in some way (in fact, it is an asset). Hollywood has done a fine PR job for White guys worldwide, esp in Asia. You will get your share of rejections.

Comment by Jae

4 March 2006 @ 2:32 am

I don’t think Suzy is a Korean or Korean-American female - and if she is…then…I’d be surprised.

Suzy, if you don’t even know what you’re talking about, you should just shut your mouth. You just did a great job making a fool of yourself. Your ignorance and stupidity just amaze me. Seriously…what are you? And how old are you? I truly feel sorry for you. You embarrass Korea and Korean people. Reading your comments, I feel so freakin’ ashamed. And if you really are a Korean or Korean-American female, then…as a Korean female, I feel like killing myself ‘cuz I’m just so embarrassed.

Jeff, you know…if I post my email address here, Suzy’s probably going to keep harrassing me with trashy, childish emails and I just have no time or energy to deal with such. But you know who I am! ;)

Comment by dontknowme

4 March 2006 @ 6:42 am

Seoul A-guy:
“Been here 3 months. I’ve already been with 44 Korean females (aged from 20 to 54). Those Korean females will do anything for you white bros.”

What do they have to do to be counted? You did’nt count anybody you shook hands, did you? Or your English students? If not, it is really no small feat for a guy who could not get any girls in your home town. Make sure that you clip their hair and keep them in a dairy or album with some descriptions.

Comment by sdel

7 March 2006 @ 5:24 pm

Is it only me or the video doesn’t work anymore? (I’m located in Korea)

Comment by Jeff in Korea

9 March 2006 @ 1:07 am

Yoon,

There are several reasons why I cannot post your comment. I will explain them to you in a private email, if you let me know who you are and provide a real email address.

However, to answer your question about my reasons for having this kind of topic on my blog, the video, called “YELLOW FEVER” is a very funny and very popular video that was written and directed by a Chinese-American. The video is about an asian man complaining that there are lot of white male / Asian female couples but not many Asian male / white female relationship. They characters wonder why white guys are stealing all of the Asian woman.

I have this topic here because I think the video is funny and well-done. I posted it for light entertainment, not as a serious issue for discussion or analysis. Some people, both Asian and non-Asian made a serious issue of it. Many people made good comments, many people made bad comments, and many many comments were too offensive to post.

Comment by Temporary

9 March 2006 @ 9:18 am

Hi! I’m a Korean american male who’ve lived mostly in the mid-atlantic region of the u.s. and I am here to tell you my opinion on this matter. My opinion is this:

I’ve always felt that American culture held the assumption that whites are generally superior to their complement in all facets of existence. Therefore, I have always felt that I’ve just been ostracized both by white males (friendship) and white females (friendship or romance), as I am therefore less desirable. On white-male-and-asian-female relationships, I have always viewed them as anomolous, just as I do white-female-and-black-male relationships. In the mid-atlantic, the mindset toward blacks that I’ve developed is that they are “ugly.” When I lived in the mid-west region for a short period, as blacks hardly existed, Mexicans generally were given this label. Although I have had a hard time detecting that label on my race, I feel that given the direction of my socializing I am also given this label to some degree. That’s all it is, I think, and I mainly agreed.

I think American culture defines white female in the American language to also mean “attractive white female”, and it does so by according to them their media roles; it similarly gives “asian male” a definition of not being too attractive. So the language and the culture together really discourage white females in asian-male-and-white-female relationships.

So, I think that is what may be blamed: the culture and the language.

Aside from culture and language and using my judgment, I noticed that Asian males are not attractive, anyway. On the other hand, I have to ultimately say the same reversely, that Asian males are not that attracted to the average white female. (To explain my own experience a bit, I’ve had “crushes” in the past on individuals labeled as white females, and my experiences combined with the culture and language have led me to attribute a general degree of attractive features to the notion of white female. However, the females I found myself attracted to number very few out of all the white females to see and were not likely to be dating the average white male either. Subtracting these few white females shows me that I am not really that attracted to white females any more than I am to asian females.)

Comment by yankabroad

12 March 2006 @ 4:21 am

It’s not an issue of white men with yellow women, but Western men with Eastern women. If a black man from a western country came to Korea, there would be a similar run on him by Asian women once they got over their prejudices that all blacks are poor.

Western culture has a lot to offer easterners, whether they be male or female.

The concept of freedom comes first. Date a Western Man, he will do more than take you to a restaurant or to watch a movie. He might actually introduce you to something you’ve NEVER DONE BEFORE.

Korean men, I hate to say, lack imagination. Go on a date with a Korean man, and you’ve gone a date with a thousand Korean men. It just doesn’t change that much.

As for Western men, it varies widely.

RR

Comment by Becky

13 March 2006 @ 4:34 pm

I’ve just finished reading the entirety of this blog (with comments) and I can’t even begin to say how depressing I found the whole.

I’m a “white” (gee, I can tell you’re all yanks - we don’t use racist terms like that her in Australia) girl dating a Korean (and I mean actually FROM Korea) guy, and we don’t fit any of the ridiculous stereotypes mentioned above.

Firstly, I’m slim (42 kilos!) and petite and my boyfriend is tall, sporty and built. Secondly, I cook and clean, and generally nurture my boyfriend, and he in